Nintendo: Making mobile games 'flies in the face of what we believe in' [Interview]

The maker of Mario couldn't be in stranger times. As Nintendo prepares for what could be one of its strongest holiday seasons with critically-acclaimed games and the 3DS raring to go, the company expects to report its first financial loss in over 30 years. And let's not forget Nintendo's staunch opinions of mobile and social gaming, which are quickly outpacing Microsoft and Sony as the company's biggest competition.

To get a better sense of what to expect from Nintendo this holiday and why the company refuses to dabble in mobile or social games, we sit down with Nintendo of America president and COO Reggie Fils-Aime (pictured below). Spoiler: He's excited, like, really, really excited about the new Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword.

Let's talk holiday releases. We all know what's coming out with Super Mario 3D Land, The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword and Mario Kart 7. What game are you most excited about?

Me personally? It's like asking me which of my children do I love the most. I'm a huge Zelda fan -- my favorite game of all time is Zelda: Link to the Past. One of the benefits of my job is that I get to play games in development. I have a special Wii in my office, and I've been playing Skyward Sword since E3 [in June]. I'm very much looking forward to that game.

As I practiced and got ready to play at Jimmy [Fallon] last night, it rekindled all of the things I love about Zelda. It's puzzle solving, it's the battles, but now with the Wii Motion Plus, every battle is a puzzle to solve. And it's such a big game. The development team said that this is the largest Zelda game that they've ever created.
Super Mario 3D Land
Now, what other parts of the holiday lineup--maybe not necessarily Nintendo releases--are you excited about?

Let's talk a little bit about 3DS. So, I've been playing Super Mario 3D Land [picture above]--another one of my advantages: I get the games early. And that game is fantastic. That is a game that the 3DS was built for. [That's] in terms of taking advantage of the different viewpoints, different ways of navigating to fight Bowser and save the princess.

From a non-Nintendo standpoint this holiday, I think what Activision has done with Skylanders is really innovative. And that's a game that plays extremely well--the 3DS version plays well, the Wii version plays well. So, I'm looking forward to playing Call of Duty. I play all the games, [and] I make sure that I spend time on competitive systems as well.

What are you playing on the competitive systems?

So, I've played Battlefield [3] on the home consoles, I've played it on PC. I've played some Gears of War to see how that played, I played a little Resistance [3]. You know, I think it's important for me to have knowledge, insight on everything that's coming out. I got to see Skyrim at E3, and I'm looking forward to seeing that. But I try to get my hands on everything.

Reggie Fils-AimeHow is Nintendo catering to the casual gamers this holiday? It seems like a lot of the releases of the past few months have been for the hardcore Nintendo fan.

In terms of the more casual gamer, I would highlight a number of things that we're doing. First, from a third party perspective you've got Just Dance 3, Zumba Fitness, so there continues to be new, fresh content for the more casual user. Second thing I would highlight is we recently introduced the line of Nintendo Selects, so these are highest quality, strong selling games now being made available for $19.99. Included in that lineup is the original Wii Sports, so for consumers that bought hardware over the last year or so that didn't come included with Wii Sports, that product is available. But also Super Paper Mario, Zelda: Twilight Princess, Mario Galaxy--I mean, some great, high quality titles that for maybe a new-to-the-Wii buyer, those products are available.

The last thing I would highlight, in terms of content for the more casual consumer, would be the new Kirby game that just came out last month. Classic Kirby: inhaling enemies, picking up new abilities, so I think there's great content out there for the casual gamer. In fact, I think that's what makes Nintendo different, if you will, is this holiday, we've got content for every type of gamer. If you're more active, great. You've got Zelda, Call of Duty on our platform, there's great content for you. But if you're wanting more casual content, great: Just Dance 3, Zumba Fitness, you know, even Black Eye Peas: The Experience.

Speaking of casual, since the 3DS has released it's been largely a system that seems to attract the, like I said, hardcore Nintendo fan. What would you say are Nintendo's plans to increase the appeal to casual gamers for the 3DS?

Well, our two big holiday titles for this year will certainly broaden the audience. Everyone loves Mario, [and] everyone loves to play Mario Kart [pictured below]. And the way those experiences are tailor-made for the 3DS certainly will continue expanding the base. As we look to next year, Mario & Sonic at the London Olympic Games is coming out on 3DS early next year--that's gonna' continue to broaden. But my expectation is that, come E3, I think we'll be showcasing a range of different titles that, for a more casual consumer, they'll see reasons to jump on board with the Nintendo 3DS.

We've heard that digital transactions are coming to the 3DS, which is pretty big news. How those transactions will work exactly?

In terms of what the next system update will allow, it will allow developers to sell add-on content, and whether that's for a physical game or a digitally released game. In terms of how it will work, it's up to the developer whether they want to make it to buy new levels, new items--all of that is up to their imagination. Essentially, what we're doing is creating the framework for those transactions to happen.

The digital business on the 3DS is very strong, and it's not only the gaming content we're making available through the eShop, but the video content we're making available through Nintendo Video. So, it's already a robust environment and the Nintendo 3DS is our most connected device ever, which is great.

Will Nintendo ever release digital upgrades or add-ons to its games?

We're interested in it to the extent that it makes sense to the consumer. And it's interesting: I've had this conversation with a number of our key developers, and their mentality is, "Reggie, when we sell a game, we want the consumer to feel that they've had a complete experience." Now, in addition, if we want to make other things available, great, and we'll look at that. But what we're unwilling to sell a piece of a game upfront and, if you will, force a consumer to buy more later. That's what they don't want to do, and I completely agree. I think the consumer wants to get, for their money, a complete experience, and then we have opportunities to provide more on top of that.

So, are we speaking to the free-to-play space, in terms of you download the game and pay a dollar for in-game items?

All I'm saying is--your question was--will Nintendo participate in this additional digital content? And the answer is yes, but the way that we'll do it is that whatever we sell initially, we will feel that that is a complete experience. And if that's all the consumer wants to do, that they'd be satisfied.
Mario Kart 7
While we're on the 3DS, it's tough to ignore the launch and the price cut that happened over the summer. What is the number one thing that the 3DS needs to succeed on the same level as the DS Lite?

Content. It's all about the content, and we're gratified when we see reviews for Super Mario 3D Land, for example, giving it a perfect score. We are gratified when we saw that with the launch of Ocarina of Time in 3D. It's those types of games that make the 3DS a must-have piece of hardware. It reaffirmed for us that lesson that software drives hardware, and that the launch and ongoing for the system to be effective, you need to have titles to drive the install base.

President Iwata says Nintendo will be exploring new types of games with the 3DS. Can you tell me more about that?

For all of the success we've had with DS, 50 million units here in the U.S., content with a bit more of an edge from key third party publishers really never came to the platform--handful of exceptions. So, one of the first things that will differentiate the 3DS is that we are getting that type of content. And probably the best example of that is the Resident Evil game that will come out next year from Capcom. Beautiful game, and if you love Resident Evil, it's everything that you want.

In terms of other genres, absolutely we will continue to push the envelope with new, unique, differentiated experiences that you can only get on the Nintendo 3DS and that widen the consumer demographic. So, will there be content to appeal to consumers 50 plus the way Brain Age did? Absolutely. Will there be content that's going to appeal to women the way we are able to do with the DS? Absolutely. I can't go into the details of what exactly those titles will be, but stay tuned. There is information that we'll be sharing prior to E3, plus a lot of information at E3 as well.

Pokemon Say TapA recent Bloomberg report says investors want Nintendo to make mobile games. When Pokémon Say Tap was announced for iPhone, Nintendo stock prices spiked. Then, when people learned the game was not from Nintendo, the stock fell back to normal numbers. What do you think about that investor feedback?

First, we're an entertainment company. We don't make devices for the sake of making devices. We make our hardware in order to bring great entertainment experiences to life. Whether that's the DS, the Wii or the 3DS--or even back to the NES and the SNES--that's our philosophy. Therefore, the concept of having our core franchises on other systems really flies in the face of what we believe in, and that's because by understanding the hardware, that's how we're able to bring these great experiences forward.

The two great examples of this, coming this holiday, are Skyward Sword for Wii and Super Mario 3D Land for 3DS. You know, we've made the same development tools available to everybody else creating content for the platforms. But no one has created a game like Skyward Sword that fully leverages the Wii Motion Plus technology in a traditional gamer experience. It hasn't been done before, and this is going to be [the Wii's] sixth holiday.

For the 3DS, people are saying that [Super Mario 3D Land] is the game that the system was built for. And it's because we understand how to maximize the experience. So, I think those are great examples of why we believe that our content can best be brought to life on our hardware. And by following that strategy, in the end, it's the best for our investors.

Companion apps are huge, and Nintendo just announced that the 3DS eShop is coming to iOS and web. Have there been talks about expanding that approach of companion apps to games?

We consider a lot of things, and we'll continue to drive a lot of experimentation not just with Facebook or things that we do from a PC website standpoint. We want to make it easy for all of our fans to be connected to the key franchises they love and the experiences they love. So, we're constantly looking at everything. But in the end, the full game experiences will be brought to life, at least from a first party perspective, on our hardware.

A recent Flurry study says iOS and Android have taken 58 percent of the portable gaming market. So if Nintendo isn't interested in entering that space how does the company plan to keep up with this new competition?

First, I haven't seen the study, and Flurry is a company that consults app developers. So, as we look at our range of companies where we trust their data, and they have a methodology that makes sense--I just can't speak to the data. And I can't speak to the motivations of the company, as they are not a pure research firm. Having said that, the way that we compete is that we compete with our franchises, we compete with our differentiated experiences and we compete by giving the consumer the best value for their money. Nintendo has always been a mass market company. Even from back in the days of the NES, we always want as many consumers to jump into this industry that we love called video games, and to maximize the breadth of our reach. And the only way we can do that is great games, great experiences, differentiated experiences at a great value.
The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Nintendo President Iwata says every measure will be taken to ensure that the Wii U is a success. What does the Wii U need to succeed when it arrives in 2012?

The Wii U has to deliver a differentiated experience that can only be brought to bear through the use of these two screens. If all we do is a beautiful game in HD, it's been done before. We have to take advantage of the second screen, we need to take advantage of the connectivity that the system will offer and, if we do that, we believe that we will yet again disrupt the market the same way we with DS and Wii.

We've heard murmurs that people are calling Zelda: Skyward Sword the swan song for the Wii. Is there any truth to that?

Well, it is certainly true that the Wii is not over. I was the one who was asked the question originally, and I think some comments were taken out of context. So, what I can say is that there certainly will be more games launched for the Wii. And what I can say is that we believe there are still millions more systems to be sold. And I can say that the Wii will coexist side by side beside the Wii U for some period of time.

I think for any game to compare to Skyward Sword, I think is gonna be a tough challenge. All the reviews aren't out yet, but I counted this morning there are eight perfect scores. I don't know if there's going to be a video game in history that's going to be able to compare to Skyward Sword. So, to clarify my comments on this, there will be more games for the Wii, we'll sell more hardware for the Wii and it will coexist side by side to the Wii U. All those things I can commit to, but I can't commit that there's going to be another game that will score and be of the caliber of Skyward Sword. I don't think there's been one to date.

What are you most excited about in Nintendo's holiday lineup? What do you think of Reggie's opinions on the prospect of Nintendo entering new platforms like mobile?

Scott Steinberg: Facebook could be in music games' future [Interview]

"It was too many games in too short a time, playing to too niche of an audience at too high a price--in the middle of the worst recession possible." According to technology analyst and public speaker Scott Steinberg, this was what essentially killed the enormous music gaming franchises, Guitar Hero and Rock Band. The age of sitting around your living room with three friends, plucking and fiddling with plastic instruments to Rush's Tom Sawyer is all but over ... for now.

Well, at least those exorbitant pieces of plastic are through. Steinberg details the rise, fall, and imminent resurrection of music-based video games in his new novel, "Music Games Rock: Rhythm Gaming's Greatest Hits of All Time," which you can read for free right here. (If you're so inclined to support the guy, it's also available on iBooks, Kindle and in paperback.)

According to Steinberg, music games inspired by Guitar Hero and Rock Band's wild success will get their second shot in the limelight on Facebook and in your smartphones. We recently sat down with Steinberg to hear his thoughts on just how Facebook games can take advantage of this golden opportunity, why it hasn't happened just yet and what the killer Facebook music game might be like.

What advantages would you say social games have to capitalize on the downfall of music games?

There's a number of advantages, right? Free-to-play and incredibly low barriers to entry. You certainly don't have high-end system requirements, and you don't have to buy pricey plastic peripherals. They can tap into your existing music collection or stream it live, and you have millions of players connected to a platform that's uniform.

You don't have to worry, for the most part, about bugs or errors, because everybody is playing the same thing at the same time. So, what you have is a ready made audience, say, on Facebook alone of 800 million people who are incredibly connected. [They] used to playing with one another and are taking part in a platform that's uniquely tailor-made to take advantage of digital music--and oh, by the way, it's completely free to play.

When you take it in this context, coupled with the fact that every human being on this planet is hardwired to enjoy music, that really is the common unifier. Social games really are uniquely poised to take the genre to the next level.

Music Games RockIn your book, you mention that the music genre has enjoyed a revival on social networks through Facebook games like Nightclub City and Dirty Dancing--largely simulator games. But what about games that more closely resemble the now-defunct rhythm games like Pump It? Which of the two do you think has a better chance at thriving on Facebook?

Actually, I would argue that some of the better ones that have a chance of surviving may not even be traditional games at all. Look at a service like Turntable.fm: Wouldn't consider it a game per se, except it's powered completely by gamification elements. You're creating custom play lists, you're interacting with other players in a social environment and ultimately you're competing for the approval of other users by liking the songs.

Or, if you look at other games like YooStar Playground or apps like VidRhythm--these are the titles that are to do particularly well. That said, simulation titles [have a] strong audience for them and proven capability, and certainly because that's where so many games got their roots [on Facebook]. There's likely to be a lot of people interested. I've even seen a number of unreleased games that are in prototype that essentially allow you to take on the role of managing or performing in a rock band--I think they're uniquely well-suited.

I think what's not going to translate over well is simply the standard tap in time with the on-screen indicator type games. Though, these can continue to succeed on mobile platforms, because in the mobile context you're typically looking to play maybe with one hand in a span of five or six minutes. Whereas social games may only be a 15-minute spurt, you're sitting down in front of a PC and you're typically more engaged.

There are some music creation social games on the fringe already, like BreakOutBand, that rely on players to share content to succeed. How important would that be in a social game centered around music?

I think user-created content, as it relates to social games, is massively important, because at the end of the day the developers can only take a game so far. And it's the players' ability to interact with and reshape that music or related content that really creates a sense of community, and allows a title to constantly keep feeling fresh and people coming back for more.

It's essentially a win-win, because for the developer it's a very affordable way to keep adding content to the game and keep people talking about it, and coming back after weeks and weeks. Players aren't constrained by office politics, licensing issues, and--to be frank--everybody loves to mix and mash creations.

But how much of that is going to be super-high quality, or chart-topping hits shall we say, versus underground little diddies? This is social interaction at its core, right? So, if you don't have that level of user interactivity, at the end of the day what you have is essentially a game with a bunch of canned content. And not much reason--unless it's saying you need to recruit other players to earn money for your band or unlock new stuff--there's not much incentive to pass it along.

A good amount of music games already exist on Facebook, but none are taking off like music games did before the turn of the decade. What do you think it would take for a music-based social game to enjoy success and notoriety like Guitar Hero?

You need to have a concept with extremely wide appeal that allows players to enjoy rock star wish fulfillment in a matter of minutes without the painful side effects. What also is important is to have recognizable band scenarios, you know, licensed music. But also the ability for players to put their own spin on it and a reason for them to engage with one another.

The problem is, to succeed on social networks where you literally have thousands of titles competing, dozens of them coming out every single week--all of which are completely free to play versus Guitar Hero, which was completely brand new. To have that success on Facebook or another social network, I almost think what you're going to see is a title that's going to have to align itself with Spotify or another one of these streaming services to tap into a massive database of real-world artists and then finds new ways for you to interact with that music.
Dirty Dancing Facebook game
Back to the branded music games like Dirty Dancing (pictured). As you know, they're reaching critical mass, so what do you think is the likelihood of a monster brand like Guitar Hero or Rock Band appearing on Facebook?

Oh, it's a certainty. It's not a question of 'if,' but just a question of 'when.' I think a lot of that is because the game makers aren't unawares. Activision, Harmonix, Mad Catz: They understand the power of social networks as a platform. The problem is that their business has been thus far founded in either selling peripherals--good mark up on those plastic guitars--or selling software for 60 bucks a pop.

They haven't had as much incentive to scurry and think, 'How do we make a free-to-play platform where we're probably going to make a lot less money in the immediate?' But slowly and surely, as so many game players are migrating to these platforms, convenience is winning. It's almost as if they're being forced to acknowledge it. It's a completely new approach to game design--Wal-Mart's not going to order a million units. They'll embrace it; it's just a question of 'when.'

Try to describe your dream music-based Facebook game to me. In other words, what do you think would be the ultimate approach to a music game on Facebook?

The ultimate Facebook music game would not only be able to tap into your full library of digital music, but also stream millions of songs on demand. [It would] allow you to set up on stage custom concerts for your friends, featuring this music or original music you created. [You would] style your avatars, build your own bands, create your own followings, sell your own virtual merchandise and connect over shared love of music with millions of players across the world.

It would effectively recreate the rock and recording industry experience, only in a virtual setting. What I mean is a combo listening service, social network, slash simulation game that effectively allows you to build a rock band and recording industry career from the ground up. I don't see any reason why you couldn't create avatars for your band--it's own look, logo, virtual stickers, t-shirts. You could buy branded gear like Gibson's or Marshall's, earn cash from touring, build your own virtual labels. I don't see any reason why a platform wouldn't be able to break new artists.

Wow, I think it's time for you to call the patent office. Thanks for taking the time to chat, Scott.

What do you think of the prospects of a wildly successful music game hitting Facebook? Who do you think could be the first to create the ultimate music game on Facebook?